Probing the Pressures of the Press

Milyce Pipkin: 

Hi and welcome to The Table Podcast where we discuss issues of God and culture and show the relevance of theology to everyday life. I'm Milyce Pipkin. I'm a fellow at The Hendricks Center here on the campus of Dallas Theological Seminary, and I'm so glad that you could join us today. I think you're really going to love the topic of discussion, probing the pressures of the press. So many times we just love being on the air, whether we're on YouTube or we're videoing things and things like that. But these are experts in fields of broadcasting, in publication, even in photojournalism, whom we're going to be talking to today as we kind of probe them for some of the things that they have to look out as Christians doing their work and their ministry. I think you're really going to enjoy this. So sit back, relax and enjoy this conversation. 

Joining me in the studio, we have Radha Vyas. She is a photojournalist and a graduate here of Dallas Theological Seminary like myself. Yay. We'll give you a chance to talk about some of your credentials in just a moment as well, Radha. We are also joined via Zoom by none other than Warren L. Maye, who is with the Salvation Army. And he is an expert in the field of journalism in terms of what he does for writing and producing their publication, SA Connect. We'll be talking to you about that as well. And then last but certainly not least, we're so excited to have Tim Morgan joining us. This guy is the guy who writes ethics for Christian journalism, so we're going to be talking with him as well. Tim, are you there with us? We want to see your face in the place as well. 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

I am here. Yeah, I'm so excited to be back with you all and have great memories of our session in Lancaster PA last year or so. That was cool. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I'm glad you brought that up because that's where I met you and Warren, was at the Evangelical Press Association last year in Pennsylvania. And it's just so wonderful how we get an opportunity to just kind of meet by the Holy Spirit. And then we realize these conversations are conversations we need to have so that anyone can live, learn, and minister by what we know. So I'm just grateful to you all for joining us today and we're just going to dive right in. And I'm going to do that because we know that each of you have, not only are experts in your fields, but you have awards, you have won awards for what you do as journalists. You are serious experts in what you do, and that's why I wanted to bring you to the Table podcast. But before we get to some of your credentials, the reason why you're here, I want to give you each a chance to tell me what it is in terms of your scripture that you live and you work by. 

And I'll get started to give you an example. I kind of like Joshua 1:9, where God is telling Joshua to remember the command for him not to be afraid, not to be dismayed. To take courage, knowing that God is going to be with him wherever he goes. And that's kind of like my minister "live by" scripture to remember that God is with me wherever I go, as long as I'm keeping his statutes and his commands, and I do my best to do that. So Radha, I'm going to start with you. What is kind of your scripture that you live by? Work by? 

Radha Vyas: 

The one that I work by primarily is Colossians 3, I believe it's 23 or 24. Where it's talking about work for the Lord and not for men. That just kind of guides me throughout everything that I do in my work, in my studies, and how I even do household chores. It's important to know that when I'm writing, when I'm photographing the person behind the lens or whether it's a grand scene or something like that, it's going to be for the glory of God. And that's what guides me. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I love it a lot. Tim? 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Yes, I've used quite a few scriptures over the years. But the one I keep coming back to is from Thessalonians Chapter Five, Verse 21. And I love it. It's so short. We in journalism, we like to do it short, but it goes like this, "Test everything. Hold fast to that which is good and abstain from every form of evil." I mean, how could you go wrong following that guideline? So verification in journalism is so important, but it's really important in theology and in our daily living. We have this desire to know what's true, and I really believe that's so essential. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I love that. Thank you Tim. Warren, you have a scripture, I know, that you kind of work by here. Come on, tell us what it is. 

Warren L. Maye: 

All right, I'm all right. Well, I'm so happy to be back with you guys. We really did a wonderful, had a wonderful time in EPA. It's really something that has resonated with me. So thanks so much for inviting me back. And my scripture has been Habakkuk, Chapter Two, Verse Two. It's all about writing the vision, making it plain on tablets. So that he who reads it can run with it. And I actually put that scripture at the bottom of every email I send out and it's because I was so moved when I read the story of Habakkuk and heard that conversation, that argument that went on between him and God, where he was trying to figure out what was going on, hashing back and forth the facts of the matter until he understood the message that God wanted him to share with the people. And how he essentially, in my mind became the first recorded journalist in history. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I got you. I love it a lot. And I wanted to start that way because I believe what we do as journalists starts kind of where our hearts are with God and his word. And so that was my starting point. Now I want to kind of go and pick up a little bit more about the credentials of the woman and the men here joining us on the table. So Radha? Again, we'll start with you. All right. 

Radha Vyas: 

My, I don't know, it's hard to talk about accomplishments. I'm always so humble and modest. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You are. I know you personally. You really are a sweet person. Very humble. 

Radha Vyas: 

I would say 2022 at the EPA, I was awarded the Jerry Jenkins Award of Journalism, Excellence in Journalism Award. And that was such an incredible moment for me to be honored in that way. That's one thing. I've also published in Christianity Today, some photographs, some writing, and... 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I'll tell you something that you don't want to talk about that I remember even as a student here just before we graduated last May 2022, was your exhibit that was in the hallways of one of the buildings here. Where we were taking classes and we had an opportunity to just walk along the hallway and see your work in action, what you do, how you see things through your lens when you're taking pictures. Particularly that exhibit, I think I remember, it had something to do with women? 

Radha Vyas: 

Yes. That was actually women in ancient churches around Italy, around northern Italy primarily. So the 

Milyce Pipkin: 

So the job takes you in faraway places. 

Radha Vyas: 

It does. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

To wonderful places in Europe and all that good jazz. 

Radha Vyas: 

Yeah, that was such an incredible project that I loved working on, just gathering all these images for the church basically. And for scholars all around the world getting to have access to these images. That's a whole other thing. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

It's been a journey. It's been a journey. Warren or Tim, we'll go to either of you now. Tell us a little about us. And I know this is not an opportunity to brag. This is just an opportunity for someone who's listening to kind of get an idea of who we're talking to here on the table. 

Warren L. Maye: 

Okay. Well, I, a very humbling question to be asked. Because I feel that the Lord made it possible for me to have found this niche in journalism, which I longed for so many years when I was working at Harper & Row, at Random House, ad agencies in Manhattan, BBD & O, and down in Brandt Street. I couldn't get over the fact that I was working with colleagues who would stay in their offices till 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night. If you went into their office, you'd think you're walking into their living room or their bedroom that had everything they needed to stay overnight. But all they had to say about their work was four-letter words that they couldn't put in print. And I thought, there's something wrong with his picture. And then do I want to be in this? No, I really, really want to give my best work to the Lord. 

And he made it possible through the Salvation Army to become an editor and later an editor-in-chief of SAConnects Magazine, which is our current publication. And we're able to reach people throughout the northeast of the United States and because of social media, throughout the world. And it just amazes me that God would use me and bring me into the midst of the company, of the staff that has been doing this kind of work for so many years. 

And I could talk about the most recent award, which was we have best cover of the year through EPA. We've had 11 other awards. We've had many, many other awards that we've gotten through EPA and other organizations. I've also done photography. 9-11 was one of those moments that caused me to have to roll up my sleeves and go to work unexpectedly. But the pictures that came out of that were pictures that ended up in the Smithsonian Institute. And recently we've got the Award of Excellence from the EPA. So those are some of the things, but I give it all to God. I give God praise for every bit of it because he's truly the one that's worthy to be praised. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Amen. Tim, you come with some deep credentials as well. Tell us a little bit about your background. 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Yeah, thanks for offering. I can share a little bit about that. So I love that you all have such an interest in photography because photojournalism was really how I really stumbled my way into journalism in high school and college. But then I gravitated more towards writing and editing. And so I started working for a daily newspaper in Central Massachusetts in about 1980. It was after I'd finished some graduate work at Boston University for studying journalism. And so while I was a graduate student, I was especially fascinated by all of the ethical quandaries that end up on the front stoop of a journalist's life. And so I really took the time to become very informed about the journalistic ethical issues. And that was very useful during my time at Christianity Today where I worked for 23 years and had many, many dilemmas, especially when it comes to misconduct. 

And we unfortunately had ample opportunity. There was no shortage of stories, sadly to say. But there were also many other examples that we could hold up to our readers that were really inspiring and showed that people resisted temptation and they did the right thing in the heat of the moment. So I think that that becomes part of the larger picture that I really hope to be able to have journalism accomplish. So currently, I'm teaching journalism and communication at Gordon College and also I'm an advisor for student media there. And so students really want to get into not only the mechanics of doing good journalism, but they want to understand how to do it better, how to do it more ethically and do it in a way that really brings glory to God and really serves and loves their neighbor. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Very good. Thank you all for that. Kind of a round-robin question about some of your credentials. To give you an opportunity to explain that to anyone listening, I want to just say this. As I'm listening to each of you describe what you do, I hear a lot of passion in what you do. But the topic today is probing the pressures of the press. So I'm sure there's some pressure there that we get some pushback to some degree. And so to just dive right into some of these difficult questions, I'll just kind of still start off with this one. Do we find ourselves under any more pressure as we work in the world of Christianity as we would if we were working in the world of secularism? 

And the reason why I'm kind of asking that is because this morning I was talking to my husband about it and he said, "No, y'all don't feel any pressure. Y'all are serving Jesus." But I'm like, "Yeah, but we're still in the flesh." That's the spiritual part of us. And that's great, but then as we have to go to work every day, you all are blessed in that you have some Christian environments to work in, but do you feel any pressure between the Christian world and the secular world as we do what we do? And we're going to be talking about some of some more pointed ways that we might feel pressure in just a moment. Anybody? 

Radha Vyas: 

I just want to start with saying one example, or not example necessarily, but sort of a metaphor is when you put your church's sticker on your car or a cross or something like that, it's like suddenly there's pressure to be the best driver you can. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I like that. 

Radha Vyas: 

You're not going to be speeding past people. You're not going to be tailing anyone because you're representing something. And I think in the same way when we're putting our work out there, whether it's a Christian publication or if it's a secular publication, it's like, "Yeah." 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's good. 

Radha Vyas: 

Yeah. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's good. Warren or Tim? Before we go to the next question? 

Warren L. Maye: 

Yeah, I think we're held to a higher standard, and this is by the secular world. They're quick to call us out if we're unkind, if we're saying things that they think, "Well, you're Christians. You're not supposed to talk to us like that." But in the process, we're trying to tell them the truth. At the same time, we're trying to be nice and it's difficult in most cases because we're caught, like Tim was saying, the dilemma is wanting to be kind, wanting to be nice, but also wanting to tell people the truth in order to set them free, set their souls free. And a lot of times it's a hard call. We're called not to curse the world like the rest of the media does, but we're called to bless it. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's good. 

Warren L. Maye: 

Yeah, so I think that's our challenge. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Tim? 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Well, yeah, I think I agree with what I've heard so far. I'd say what's different today than it was say even 10, 15 years ago, is that there are really a combination of different kind of forces putting pressure on both the Christian media and the secular media. So there's the competitive pressure from other publications or social media. There's pressure from some Christians who are really pushing a more political agenda. There's also financial and budgetary pressures I follow, just how different media has been able to survive or not survive under the current economic situation. And all those pressures make it very difficult for people to really... Where's the north star? What am I ultimately true towards? And I think that has a big influence where people, journalists get pulled in a lot of different directions. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Good. I'm going to kind of do a rapid fire through some of these so that anyone listening will get an idea of when we're talking about probing the pressures of the press, what kind of pressures we're talking about. So rapid fire just for each three of you to answer this. What are some of the ethical issues arising from the use of artificial intelligence? Have you experienced any of that? Any pressure from that? Tim? 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Yes. I'd say, because AI is still evolving, people really do not know where the boundary lines are. And so actually I've been asked by the Evangelical Press Association to revisit their whole statement of ethics. And I'm been working with a group of editors on that and would just welcome other people to contribute. But right now, people are really struggling to figure out what's acceptable, what's not acceptable. I think you have to go back to one of the essentials, which is transparency, disclosure, honesty. If you're using AI, just be honest about it. If you're not using AI, it's okay to say, "I'm not using it." People are suspicious. I guess. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Warren, you got anything to add? Radha? Either of you? 

Warren L. Maye: 

Oh yeah. I'm just thinking about this AI guy that I met on the internet who convinced me to stop scrolling. He said, "Stop scrolling." He said, "Go to this website." And I just went to the website like I was under a hypnotic spell. And it wasn't that great when I got to it. But then the next day I'm scrolling again and I come across another ad for avatars to use on the internet. And it turns out after I scrolled through a few of them, this guy shows up, the one who I thought was a real person. And it just startled me. It just amazed me that a guy like me who spent years as a portrait artist could be bamboozled and fooled by a piece of artificial intelligence. And it made me question my ability to discern things. 

And I'm thinking, if it's hitting me like this, if it's traumatizing me like this, what is it doing to the rest of the world? And so it comes down for me is, are we talking about artificial intelligence or should it really be actual integrity that we should be dealing with? 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's right. 

Warren L. Maye: 

That is the issue. Are we going to be settling just for something that's artificial and just intelligence, or are we going to strive for what's actual? And that's integral. I think that's the biggest challenge that we're facing right now. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Good. Radha, do you have anything? 

Radha Vyas: 

Yeah, I just think it's... Warren, like you were saying, that you've seen this ad with this person and it was so real. And I think there's something that's very dangerous for a culture about that. There's just so much out there that how can we make sure that people know that the journalism that we're putting out, how do we make sure that they know that they can trust us? 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's good. That's good. 

Radha Vyas: 

Because it's going to be out there. There's no way we can stop it. It's a flood of stuff now, and we just have to do the best that we can put language out that kind of will just in some way show our integrity. And we act with integrity. And they know when they come to our piece, our photo, our writing, our editing, that they know this is real. This is what we can trust, and this is going to lead us into an understanding of God in that way, in a way that AI is deceiving us. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Gotcha. Questions are going to get tougher. Can a pro-life Christian journalist cover a pro-choice protest and/or march objectively? 

Radha Vyas: 

Objectively. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Can we do it? Is it done? Do we do it well? 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

I'll jump on that one. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

You go. 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

It's a real hot potato. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes, it is. 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

I would absolutely say that if this Christian journalist accepts the standards for being objective in the sense that you're not picking sides and you're trying to convey something that's happening, if it's like a protest, I think it's important. But not every journalist should be expected to automatically follow those standards. So it really is kind of a defining moment or a moment of truth. You have to ask yourself some of these hard questions before this happens. And I know one of my journalism professors who had a student who was interning at a paper on the West Coast and was actually assigned to cover, it was either a gay rights march, or a pro-abortion march, or abortion rights march. And she refused and she was fired from our internship. So I think we have to be honest with ourselves and say not every journalist should be held to that same yardstick. But the journalists who are willing to take up that charge should be affirmed in that choice. That's how I would... 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I like your response, and I'm just going to say this. That was well said. I don't know if Radha and Warren and/or want to mention anything else about that. That was good for me. Do you have something you want to add, Warren? 

Warren L. Maye: 

No, I'm good. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I thought so. 

Radha Vyas: 

That was very well said. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Nailed it, Tim. 

Radha Vyas: 

Very well said. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Moving on to the next question. As we kind of live in a world of pronouns of how people are described, I don't want to be disrespectful and go LGBTQ and then get something wrong and don't mention something. But I'll just say in that world where we're talking other than heterosexuality, how do we approach these tough conversations and trying to identify a person without promoting or kind of buying into what that all is about? How do we do what we do to have those kinds of tough conversations with them, about them, and stay along the lines of who we are as Christians and what we believe? 

Warren L. Maye: 

I think it's important to recognize that simply listening to the person, it's not a concession to believing what they're saying. I think we confuse that whole idea of listening with agreeing. In order to listen to someone doesn't mean you have to agree with them, but the empathy that needs to be in the conversation can't happen until you listen. And I think what also is important is that when you listen, you can calibrate your response to what they're saying in a way that is relevant to the conversation. For example, I remember I was in a conversation with some consultants who came to visit us, to enlighten us and to sensitize us to the issues of the LGBTQ community. And the question that came to my mind was, "If you are married to your wife or your husband and have to be the same sex, what drives you to use the heterosexual model for that relationship? Why does one play the role of the man, the other play the role of the female?" And she thought about the question very deeply, and I was listening for her answer and she said, "I really don't know." 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Interesting. 

Warren L. Maye: 

"I really don't know why we use the heterosexual model if we're in the same-sex relationship." So I said, "Well, do you think we could talk about this further?" She gave me her card and I'm in the process now of hopefully getting back to her. But I just want to have a conversation about it. I'm willing to learn what is going through the person's mind that would make them feel that this is something that they want to do and to do it this way. And there's another situation where this one woman who became a Christian, and she became a Christian because one Christian that talked to her was the first person that ever referred to her as a sinner and not just as a lesbian. And she said, "We're all sinners. You're just one of us. This is just how you manifested." And it struck her to the point where she looked in the mirror and had this mirror moment to say, "Who am I?" And it brought her to Christ, ultimately. I think listening is really important in any conversation, but particularly like you were saying, we'll see these difficult ones. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yeah. Yes, it is. And for me, just coming from the world of television and broadcasting of over 25 years as a news anchor reporter and 30 years on my own television talk show for PBS Public Broadcasting system, I can recall having had an interview with a woman who identified as a transgender. And it was difficult for me, even though I call myself a Christian, but I had not been to seminary yet and hadn't learned how to love well. And so I was very uncomfortable with this conversation that was going to be had for PBS. And so what I had to do was just kind of relax and take her out to lunch and just kind of sit there. And like Warren said, just kind of listen and be compassionate to try to learn. Because my job as the host of that television show was to inform the public about her life. Like Warren was saying about what this looks like, about things that could educate people, because that's what PBS does. 

And so when I took myself outside of having an opinion and all of these other things that we can tend to do judgments and things like that, then I was able to sit and learn and deliver that information to inform people, as Warren just said. Not educate them about my opinion, but to inform them about her as a person. So that they can go forth and make their own judgments and come up with their own way that they want to deal with that. Any other comments about this particular topic, Radha and/or Tim? 

Radha Vyas: 

No, I think Warren has it exactly right. Empathy and listening. I think a lot of us could have our own examples of different situations we've been in. And honestly, listening and in our minds and our hearts praying is very critical in those moments. Sometimes that opens up an opportunity to pray with them. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Yes, and it did for me. 

Radha Vyas: 

Nice. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

There you go. I like that. Tim? 

Radha Vyas: 

Yeah. 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Yeah. I love everything I've heard so far, but I would just like to make reference to, the way I kind of describe this to students or to other journalists is I have gravitated to what I call a relational model of journalism. And if the journalist is based on, and the journalism is based on relationship, it really completely transforms the platform in which you're interacting with both your audience and the person that you're interviewing or interacting with. But yeah, it underscores empathy and seeing that person as a child of God, that God loves as much as he loves each one of us. And when we, it's almost like having a double vision where you see the person from a soul perspective. And that just helps, I think, transform the situation. And the way we're wired is that when you're interviewing somebody, they know that. There's something in the human spirit that we, it's not just body language, it's everything about the way we're interacting when we're communicating and asking questions, interacting with people. I think that for me is absolutely the way to go. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Next tough question. How do we go about doing this? The biggest ethical challenge that journalists face can come whenever we have to do any reporting on the misconduct from our own Christian community. How do we deal with that? And what do we do to be objectively who we are as journalists when we have to report about one of our own? 

Warren L. Maye: 

I've been reading scriptures about Paul's interaction with the churches that were emerging during his time that, and he had to deal with a lot of misconduct going on. And it's so reflected in the plethora of letters that he wrote. Some churches, he commended them for what they were doing and others, he had to reprimand them. He had to talk to them. He had to try to get them back to understanding the original intent of the church in the first place. And a lot of times they didn't like what he had to say. Other times that he had to say some tough words to them. But he was very consistent and unwavering and pointing people back to the scripture where it all started, leading people back to Jesus Christ who started it. And I don't know if there's any easy way to do it, but except, like we were saying before, find a way to show love, but to tell the truth at the same time. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

But that's what we do here at Dallas Theological Seminary. We teach truth and we love well. So you just said our motto. Tim? 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Yeah, that's great. That's great. So yeah, I think it's especially difficult when there's, we all know what I'm talking about when I say blame-shifting, right? So there's this particular human trait that's unflattering across the board. When you try to avoid accepting responsibility, it makes the job of the journalist even more difficult when there's a cover-up. And we see this happening out on the headlines today. 

And so I feel one of the important things is in a situation like that, the journalist has to even approach it with a level of balance and fairness, but also put some limits on your role as a journalist. If you're really out to get into the public's eye facts that have been hidden, then that's what you should do. And you don't necessarily have to be doing a drumhead trial and be prosecutor and executioner. Your role is to really help people realize the reality of the situation. And I think that's a pretty ambitious goal right there. So I think that one of the big challenges we have is when people, leaders, don't fess up when they've made something, when they've done something wrong and they've not been able to accept responsibility. So that's especially challenging. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Got anything, Radha? You good? Okay. 

Well, let's go to this question right quick and then we'll be getting ready to just wrap up. And I wrote these down. I could wrap it off some questions out of my head, but I wanted to stay on course with what we would think of as probing the pressures of the press, in terms of questions that could make us have to go deep and think about some of the pressures that we face whenever we do what we do as journalists. And that's our topic today as we're talking today with journalists from their respective fields of photojournalism. And Tim as an instructor teaching Christian ethics and having worked with Christianity Today and Warren working with the Salvation Army. 

So you come from a diverse background to join us in this conversation today. And that takes us to our next question. How can Christian writers stay on-message and avoid today's misuse of words that can become a sort of weaponization of words that we use sometimes, not us necessarily, but that are used to sometimes it ends up triggering people. We thought about how we have to use our Christian ethics and how we use words, period. So that they don't become weapons. 

Radha Vyas: 

I wanted to ask you a clarifying question actually on this one. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

They were given the questions ahead of time. That's why she's got a clarifying question. 

Radha Vyas: 

Well, yes. So you're talking about a weaponization of words. Did you have something in mind with that one? 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I kind of tried to give you kind of like, Jesus used the parables when he would try to explain things. If we're having a conversation about, and I mentioned this, where new ideas emerge in conversations, then we have opposing sides. How do we address these things without becoming journalists, who we are, using words that could become weapons in warfare that we don't need to be engaged in? I don't know. This is a question we had at EPA last year. Warren, maybe you have a response to where we want to go with this. 

Warren L. Maye: 

Well, I think the idea of words being used as weapons is a big problem because, and I think of the words as labels. It's so easy to just slap a label on someone and dismiss them, and that can be a painful rejection. And it can be a horrible misunderstanding, and it can happen regionally. The same word you use in the East may not mean the same thing in the West. 

So the label doesn't really have relevance across the board. So I guess the thing is that we should try to do is get beyond the label and talk about what are we seeing? What does that mean to you? It seems like you are doing this, or it seems like you're doing that. I'm not going to say you're doing it. I want you to tell me what you're doing. I want you to speak back to me what you're doing. I'm not going to label it. I'm just going to listen to hear what you call it, and let's start from there. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's a good approach. 

Warren L. Maye: 

Start from where the person is and go from there. I think it's a way of showing respect and empathy, and it kind of disarms the weapon. It lets people know that you're not armed and dangerous when you come into the conversation, but you've holstered your weapon. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

It's on your side. Tim, you got anything? 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Yeah, there's a tremendous temptation in journalism to traffic in stereotypes and labels, and Warren is totally right. And so for me, it is mindfulness. You have to be mindful of whenever these labels and stereotypes slip into your copy or to whatever you're saying, or your framework. You have to set aside the framework and look at things afresh. And all of the competitive pressures and the deadline pressures push journalists to rely on these labels and stereotypes. And they do harm, they do genuine harm. And we have to be mindful and try to extinguish them from not only the words we use, but the meaning is there, too. We have to watch out for the meaning behind the stereotype because it stigmatizes people and harms people. It harms both sides. So that's what I would say. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

And I like that a lot as we get ready to... Okay. Now Radha, you want to chime in. Go ahead. 

Radha Vyas: 

Yes. I wanted to add something to both of what y'all are saying. As a reader, I think it's very important for us to also be very mindful of the words that we see on the page or on the screen. There's a lot of journalists out there that don't have the same integrity that we strive for, and it's important for Christian readers to discern the words that are being said and see if we can find the truth in that. And that can be very difficult to do. If more journalists, more Christian journalists are out there keeping that integrity, it'll be easier. But as a reader, we've got to be careful, too. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Good stuff. We are wrapping up now, and what I want to do is give each of you kind of like a last word for someone listening right now. To leave this conversation strengthened by some of the things that maybe they've learned or something that you could say now as a tip or an advice that they could use going forward as a journalist. Tim, we'll start with you. 

Timothy C. Morgan: 

Yeah. I love to talk about how news has become a conversation, and it's more than just like a one radio antenna with sending out a message or like a million copies of a newspaper coming out. But people, journalists as well as the readership and the viewership, need to step up and engage in the conversation. And to share what really is on their hearts and minds. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Good. Warren? Last word? Advice? Tip? 

Warren L. Maye: 

Well, just think of it as an epiphany strategy, is what I call it. It's the expectation. It's the outcome you're looking for, is to have that moment in the conversation where God steps in and you can feel his presence. Where whether it's two people gathered together or three people or multiple people at the table, let the expectation be that something good's going to come out of this, and we're all going to get up from this table energized and motivated because we have heard from God. And maybe that's only going to happen in the Christian realm, but I don't think so. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I don't, either. 

Warren L. Maye: 

I think it didn't happen in any realm, but you have to have your heart open and your ears open and do what my dad always told me. He said, "The greatest asset a man and woman can ever possess is the ability to listen and understand." And then I took it to heart and I took it a step further. I said, "It's really hard to listen if you already know what you want to hear." 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's good. 

Warren L. Maye: 

So keep an open mind. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

That's good. 

Radha Vyas: 

Yeah. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

Radha? Tip advice for some aspiring photo journalist or person who's writing, such as yourself? What would your tip, your advice, your sure info be to them leaving this conversation? 

Radha Vyas: 

Be bold. Be strong in the Lord. And I'm going to bring it back to my verse at the beginning. Whatever you do, do it in honor of God. 

Milyce Pipkin: 

I love it a lot. I thank each of you for what you do on the front lines in journalism, and I thank you for joining us here on The Table today. That's going to wrap up our time. I certainly appreciate having this discussion and having kind of a reunion from our time last year at the Evangelical Press Association. Just thank you all for joining us, and thank you for joining us as well here on The Table. As we leave you, we want to just let you know that anytime that you're listening to one of our podcasts, we'd like for you to just leave us a rating or review. And just let us know that you have a favorite podcast and that you want others to discover us so that they can learn as well, too. Until next time, I'm Milyce Pipkin from The Table Podcast where we discuss issues of God and culture to show the relevance of theology in everyday life. Until next time, just be blessed.