Pursuing the Next Generation

Bill Hendricks: 

Well, welcome. My name is Bill Hendricks. I'm the Executive Director for Christian Leadership at the Hendricks Center at Dallas Theological Seminary. And, it's my privilege to welcome you to The Table podcast where we discuss issues of God and culture. Today, we're going to look at youth ministry, and particularly youth ministry in churches. For many churches, the youth ministry is something of a need to make sure that families have a place where they can bring their kids while the adults worship. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Our guest today though, is going to show you how a youth ministry and a youth group may be the most potent force for taking the gospel to your community. So it's my privilege to welcome to The Table, Greg Stier, who's the founder of Dare 2 Share Ministries and your mission: Help youth leaders empower students to reach their world. Welcome to The Table podcast, Greg. 

Greg Stier: 

Thanks, Bill. So glad to be here with you. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah. Well, it's a treat. We've been looking forward to this, and I'll just say from the outset for our listeners' sake, Dare 2 Share, this is coming out of a life message for you, right? So go back and tell me your story and how you kind of got into Dare 2 Share. I know it goes all the way back to your childhood, I guess. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah. I was raised in a very violent inner city home. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

And three of my uncles were competitive bodybuilders. The fourth one was a bouncer at the toughest bar in Denver, and the fifth one was a Golden Gloves boxer and a Judo champion. And my ma was the only girl in the group and they were all afraid of her because she used a baseball bat when she fought. 

Bill Hendricks: 

So there was real competitive fighting and- 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, but not with each other as much as with gang- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Just in the neighborhood? 

Greg Stier: 

Gangs, yeah. The Denver Mafia, the Smaldones had a nickname for my uncles. They called them the Crazy Brothers. So when the Mafia thinks your family's dysfunctional- 

Bill Hendricks: 

You're in trouble. 

Greg Stier: 

You're in trouble. And, I was not that way. I never knew my biological father. My mom met my dad at a party. They partied, she got pregnant. He was in the Army. He found out, he got transferred 2000 miles away. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

Mom had been married several times so I was just a scared, scarred fatherless kid in the hood, and my family terrified me and my neighbors terrified me be we were at the highest crime rate area of our city. And, a hillbilly preacher who's nickname was Yankee, I guess his dad was a counterfeiter and a bootlegger in the deep south and he was born on the run from the law, so his dad nicknamed him ___ Yankee. I won't fill in the blank. So, he kept that title. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Well, it shows you how people in the south thought of Yankees in those days. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, Yankee planted a church in the suburbs, reached my toughest uncle with the Gospel, my Uncle Jack, and he trusted Christ. One by one, my entire family put their faith in Christ and I sat there as a kid watching my entire family transformed by the simple Gospel message. There was no complication. It wasn't a turn or burn message. There was no list. It was you put your faith in Christ, and Him crucified, that He died in your place for your sin and you are saved. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

And that message, the simplicity of the Gospel, transformed them. And, I got involved with Yankee's youth ministry. Yankee believed, he had a philosophy that the fastest way to reach a city was through the young. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow, yeah. 

Greg Stier: 

Because he said teens come to Christ quicker, the spread the Gospel faster. So he trained and equipped us, and we had 800 teenagers in our church. We only had 300 adults. 800 teens in our youth ministry. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

And, he equipped us in sound theology. He equipped us in evangelism. It wasn't like first grow ... it was both and at the same time. He gave you a Bible and a stack of tracks and said you're going to learn to master both of these. I read Biblical Preaching by Haddon Robinson when I was 12. I got a Lewis Sperry Chafer eight volume Systematic Theology set when I was 15, and I wasn't the exceptional kid. I was just one of the leadership students. 

Bill Hendricks: 

But you were drawn to that? 

Greg Stier: 

I was drawn to it because I had seen the power of the Gospel. So, reading the prolegomena and the Systematic Theology of Chafer's, I wept. Because for me, it wasn't just cold dead theology. It was I'm learning to know who my dad is, who my big brother, Jesus, is, what salvation is. I mean, it's putting words to everything, all the questions that a teenager from the hood who's fatherless and struggles with identity ... I remember when I was a kid, all my uncles, before they were saved, they were ruthless. Most of them were just downright mean. My Uncle Dave gave me a gift in front of our entire family when I was six, and I opened it up. It was Christmas. And, it was a girl's doll. 

Greg Stier: 

I thought it was a mistake. I go, "Why'd you give me a girl's doll?" And, he's like, "I figured you don't have a dad so you like to play with dolls like a little girl." 

Bill Hendricks: 

Oh my gosh. 

Greg Stier: 

That scarred me. 

Bill Hendricks: 

How shaming. 

Greg Stier: 

It shamed me. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Absolutely. 

Greg Stier: 

But I want to tell you something, that began the search. As a six-year-old, I said, "There's got to be more." And, I began to study my little King James Bible underneath the kitchen sink with a flashlight. I still have that red King James Bible. I couldn't understand it, but I knew the answers were in there. So coming to Christ, watching my family transformed- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, that's the big thing. 

Greg Stier: 

... studying this theology and then getting mobilized for evangelism hit every major question a teen has. Dr. Kara Powell talks about the three big questions; identity, belonging and purpose. Well, identity, I'm a child of God. So I don't know my dad, that's okay. I have a heavenly Father. Belonging, I have the people of God, the family of God. And purpose, I have the cause of Christ to make disciples of all nations. So for me, as an inner city kid- 

Bill Hendricks: 

It put the pieces- 

Greg Stier: 

It put everything together. So, I don't have a story like, "Well, and then I strayed years later." It was like, "Why would I stray?" 

Bill Hendricks: 

Right, you'd found life. 

Greg Stier: 

I found life. Why would I stray? 

Bill Hendricks: 

And this may sound like an obvious question, but just briefly, what did that transformation in your family look like that was so ... basically you saw power at work there. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah. So my Uncle Jack, Yankee goes to his house on a Saturday morning and knocks on his door. Jack comes to the door, no shirt on, tats everywhere, two beer cans, one for drinking beer, one for spitting chew and goes, "What do you want?" He didn't know who he was. He didn't know who he was. He goes, "My name's Yankee Arnold. I'm here on a dare from Bob Daley to tell you about Jesus." 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

He goes, "I don't know Jesus. I know Bob and I'll give you five minutes." So, Yankee just went in there and laid the Gospel on him and asked him, "Does that make sense?" And my Uncle Jack said, "Hell yeah." That was a sinner's prayer. He trusted Christ. He started devouring his Bible. He brought 250 people out to church in one month, body builders, street fighters, gang members. Then my Uncle Bob, he came to Christ as a kid actually, but then he went far from God. Got in a bar room brawl with a guy that stabbed his best friend, Doug Johnson, five times. Beat the guy to death, gets arrested. Throw him in the back of the squad car. While the EMTs are working on this guy to resuscitate him, he called out to God, "God, I'm in." 

Greg Stier: 

Well, he found out the next day they did resuscitate him. He was released from jail. A year later, he was at Florida Bible College where he went and grew and just ... So, it was over the course of time. It was messy. My mom was one of the hold outs. So I got equipped to share the Gospel when I was 12, so the first person on my heart was my ma. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Oh, sure. 

Greg Stier: 

Because mom ... 

Bill Hendricks: 

She had been there for you. 

Greg Stier: 

She was a partier. She had been married several times. She was like the woman at the well with a baseball bat, just tough lady. One day actually, a guy pulled up she had married in a car, brand new car, and I was on the porch. I was five. I go, "Mommy, one of my daddies is here." And she's like, "Where's the bat?" And she reached behind the door, got the baseball bat, runs out there, cigarette hanging out of her mouth ... because he had left us. We had no idea where he was ... shatters his front windshield, shatters his headlights and is like, "Get out of the car. I'm just a girl." Well, she's a girl with five bodybuilding brothers that were all scared of her. 

Greg Stier: 

Well, she starts doing body damage and I'm freaking out, but somehow proud of her. I'm like, "Yeah, you go, Mom," because she's whaling. Well, he gets out and she beats him bloody. He finally gets back in the car, drives off. We never see him again, for some strange reason. I remember mom walking back up asking myself three things. Well, saying to myself three things. Number one, I will never disobey my mom again. Number two, how did the cigarette stay in her mouth the whole time? Which was impressive. And three is why is she so angry? 

Greg Stier: 

Well, she had a shamed-fueled rage. When she got pregnant with me, my grandma told me years later, she drove from Denver to Boston to abort me. Changed her mind after a couple months staying with my Uncle Tommy and my Aunt Carol. They talked her out of it. She came back and I wondered for years why when she would look at me she would burst out in tears. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. Wow. Just holding all that- 

Greg Stier: 

It's because she felt guilt. Holding all that. All the guilt and the shame. So I started sharing Christ with her when I was 12, simple Gospel. "Mom, God loves you. Our sins separate us from Him. Sins cannot be removed by good deeds, Ma. But paying the price for sin, Jesus died and rose again and if you trust in Him alone, you have eternal life and it starts now and lasts forever." And she would say, "You don't know the things I've done wrong." 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, God can't love me. I'm beyond the pale. Right. 

Greg Stier: 

Well, I knew everything she had done wrong because my grandma had told me everything. And, for three years I worked on her, and finally one day I walked in the kitchen. I was like, "Ma, sit down." I didn't talk that way to my mom. I go, "I don't want you to go to hell." You got to come at my family like that. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Pretty straight. 

Greg Stier: 

She goes, "All right, tell me again." She's smoking a cigarette. I laid it on her. She goes, "You mean to tell me Jesus paid for all my sins?" I go, "Yeah." She took a drag. She goes, "You mean to tell me all I have to do is put my faith in Him and He forgives me for everything? What about the bad ones?" I go, "They're all bad to Him and they're all nailed to the cross." 

Greg Stier: 

She took another drag. She said, "I'm in." And my family, when they said they're in, they're in. She put her faith in Christ and I just remember that one of the greatest days of my life was being able to lead my own ma to Christ. 

Bill Hendricks: 

No kidding, man. 

Greg Stier: 

And then, I discipled my mom. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

Because I had been discipled to disciple. And, it's because Yankee did not look at teenagers as second class citizens, or they're not real until they can tithe. He looked at them ... Okay, so Bill, if I'm in the business world, I'm going to focus on the demographic that's most likely to buy my product and sell my product. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Exactly. 

Greg Stier: 

80% of those, ish, that come to Christ do it by the time they're 18. So why are we not spending- 

Bill Hendricks: 

It's a target rich- 

Greg Stier: 

... 80% of our income on ... and, I'll tell you the honest answer. It's because they don't tithe. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, right. They don't have any money. 

Greg Stier: 

And I want to tell you, but our currency in the ministry, it's not money, it's souls. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Correct. 

Greg Stier: 

And the only way we're going to change the trajectory of the church in the Western world and all around the world is mobilizing teenagers for the Gospel. If we miss youth, we miss the movement. Jesus was a youth leader. And, I remember talking about youth ministry, I was preaching at Billy Graham's School of Evangelism. This old Black pastor goes, "You know Jesus was a youth leader?" I'm like, "Oh, what are you talking about?" 

Greg Stier: 

He's like "Matthew 17:24-27, Peter, Jesus and the disciples go in Capernaum, but only Peter and Jesus paid the temple tax. Exodus 30:14 says the temple tax is only for those 20 years old and older. All the disciples are there but only Peter and Jesus pay." 

Bill Hendricks: 

They were younger. 

Greg Stier: 

So I say hey, Jesus was a youth leader with one adult volunteer and one rotten kid and with that youth group, He changed the world. So you got a youth group of 12, you can change the world because Jesus said, "Greater things in these shall you do." And, those disciples didn't have the Holy Spirit until Acts 2. Our students have the spirit now. We have to mobilize. The Western church is missing the mark because we do not take youth ministry seriously. 

Bill Hendricks: 

You use a term in work, gospelize. Is that just a different permeation of the word evangelize or do you have a special connotation attached to that? 

Greg Stier: 

You know it's the original old English word for evangelize? I heard it in a Spurgeon sermon. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow, okay. 

Greg Stier: 

But I think it's got a fuller meaning, because when I say gospelize, yes, I mean evangelism, but I also mean creating a context for evangelism and disciple multiplication to be the culture in which our students live and breathe. So from square one, it's not about you. It's about the kingdom, and it's about the Gospel and it's about making disciples, and you're here for a reason, and that's to reach your friends, to grow deep, to know Christ and to make Him known. And so how do you create what we call a Gospel advancing ministry philosophy? Gospel-centered sounds like we're just sitting around listening to Matt Chandler sermons or something, which is great, but we want to be more than just listening and executing. We want to execute. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Do. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, exactly. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Why do you call me Lord, Lord, but you don't do what I say? 

Greg Stier: 

Exactly. Let's go do this. And students are longing for it. So, Dare 2 Share for 32 years, we've done events. Now we do Dare 2 Share Live. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, tell me about that. I was interested in it. 

Greg Stier: 

It's a once a year event where we provide video training, equipping and tools for a day of global youth evangelism. It's in November. We train, equip and we mobilize students to share Christ. And so, all around the world in English and Spanish it's available. And then, the last Saturday of every month, we challenge youth leaders to do Go Share Day, which is to go out to your city, your community, and pray. Prayer, care and share. 

Bill Hendricks: 

I wanted to focus on that prayer piece because I noticed in your ...You have Gospelize Your Ministry. It starts with prayer, and you emphasized the importance of intercessory prayers. Talk about that. Why is that so important? 

Greg Stier: 

Well, you think about intercessors at your typical local church, they're usually the weirdos. I mean, let's be honest. Like, "Oh, here comes an intercessor." Like, "Oh, no." And, it's like, "Oh, the intercessors are interceding and that's something that they do." Well, intercessors, number one, they're not weirdos. They're necessary. And number two, we're all called to be intercessors. So, we're all called to be weird. We're all called to intercede for the lost. 1 Timothy 2, Paul writes to Timothy and he's like, "First of all, prayer supplications, intercessions be made for all people, kings and those in authority, everyone. God desires everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." 

Greg Stier: 

He is telling Timothy how to program the church services in emphasis. 

Bill Hendricks: 

To pray. 

Greg Stier: 

He doesn't start with preaching. He starts with praying. You start by praying. So we spend more time in announcements than intercessory prayer for the lost. The average church, I don't think, spends any time in intercessory prayer for the lost in the church service. And if it's in small groups or Bible study, it's usually praying for my Aunt Susie who broke her arm, which we need to pray for Aunt Susie but are we interceding for the lost? 

Greg Stier: 

Somebody once said before we talk to others about God, we need to talk to God about others. So, prayer. I give an illustration. When I was eight years old, I was walking to school. My mom had bought me this discounted leather jacket because it was back in the Happy Days, so I wanted to see if I could be cool. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Be Fonzie. 

Greg Stier: 

I'm like, I don't know, nine or 10 years old. Two German Shepherds come from across the street, ears back, teeth bared. 

Bill Hendricks: 

You're done for. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, they push me up against a ... I grab a chain link fence. Around my face, I block my face with my arms, and one's going for my arms, one's going for my gut and they're trying to tear me down. And, I know if they get me ... I mean, they're German Shepherds, so if they get me on the ground, I'm dead. 

Bill Hendricks: 

I'm dead. 

Greg Stier: 

So, I'm screaming and a little old lady, Ma Zeemer, probably 80 years old, comes shuffling down the street with a baseball bat cursing like a sailor. Cracks one in the head, cracks the other in the head and then she jumps between me and these dogs swinging the bat. Well, the word intercession comes from the Latin words I go between. It's a go between. She was my intercessor. She stood between me and the danger swinging that bat. Intercessory prayer is us standing between the lost and the danger interceding to God on behalf of their lost souls. 

Greg Stier: 

And, I think we vastly discount the power of intercessory prayer. Intercession is the manual labor of praying, but Epaphras says in Colossians 4:12 ... Paul says about Epaphras, "He's always laboring in prayer for you that you may mature and fully assured." We need to be praying for each other. We need to be praying for the lost. We need to intercede. Intercede, that's where it starts. Intercede for the lost. And when you pray for the lost, you start seeing the lost. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Well, I think in many ways we've lost sight of the fact there's a huge spiritual battle at play in a soul that the evil one doesn't want to lose that person to the Gospel, so he's going to put up every resource to try to prevent that. And our only recourse there is prayer. 

Greg Stier: 

I think about my grandma. I always tell the story about Yankee, and my grandparents were Christian. They were Baptists but all their kids rebelled. And, she told me one time after I prayed, she goes, "I appreciate Yankee, but you got to remember that I prayed every day for my kids to be saved." 

Bill Hendricks: 

I was going to ask. I had a feeling that was the case. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, she goes, "It was your grandma's prayers that sent Yankee." And she carried a gun with her so I was like, "Yes, ma'am. I'll acknowledge that." 

Bill Hendricks: 

Well, that was the story for my grandfather. My dad's dad was not a believer, and he came to visit us here in Dallas once. He was an Army sergeant and he smoked a big old cigar. Nice guy, but at dinner one night, the story I've been told is that I asked him, I said, "Well Granddaddy, are you a Christian yet?" And, he said, "Oh no, son, that's not for me." And allegedly, I don't remember this, but apparently I said, "Well, you will be because we're praying for you." 

Greg Stier: 

Oh, wow. 

Bill Hendricks: 

And we did. We prayed for him frequently. And, you got to go forward now about 40 years, and it's a long story, but a fascinating work of the Gospel that a pastor up in DC befriended him and then shortly after that ... befriended him because my dad resembled him and this pastor said, "Man, this guy looks like my old prof. It turned out to be dad's dad. And shortly after that, he contracted lung cancer and went into the hospital and he was literally on his deathbed. 

Greg Stier: 

Wow. 

Bill Hendricks: 

And this guy came in every day to share the Gospel, and push, push, push, and then one day, the guy comes in and my granddad's, he said, sitting up in bed. And of course, they're military guys, he goes, "Well, today I got a new commander." 

Greg Stier: 

Oh, wow. 

Bill Hendricks: 

And he had prayed to receive Christ. 

Greg Stier: 

Wow. 

Bill Hendricks: 

And you go back to those prayers, and you have to know that there is power in those prayers, those intercessory and laboring prayers over time. Long obedience in the same direction. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, it's like some people say they'll never believe. I'm like, "You know, prayer's like chopping down a tree. The bigger the tree, the longer it takes but you keep swinging and you keep praying and guess what? When that tree finally falls, two things happen. That soul gets saved, and you're jacked because you've been swinging that ax. Your faith is built in the process." So, not only does prayer get answered but we get spiritually, our faith gets strengthened in the process. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, I was going to ask you what's the most unlikely or unexpected conversion you've ever seen? 

Greg Stier: 

Well, it was my whole family. I'm not exaggerating. My family is the most unexpected conversion. 

Bill Hendricks: 

You thought, "There's no way." 

Greg Stier: 

No, no. They loved violence. And my Uncle Jack, and my mom ... It was powerful to see it, but it makes me think of Romans 1:16. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ for it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes. And what I tell teenagers is the Gospel's like a grenade. It doesn't matter if a 30 year old Marine throws it or a 12-year-old girl- 

Bill Hendricks: 

It's got power. 

Greg Stier: 

It's got inherent power. And the Gospel, we need to give that message. We need to give it clearly. We need to make sure we're giving a clear, simple Gospel message, nothing added. The whole book of Galatians is about don't add anything. And, the simple message of the Gospel ... I mean, if Yankee would've come with a turn, like, "You got to turn from your sin before you come to Christ" to my Uncle Jack, my Uncle Jack would've given him the middle finger because my Uncle Jack was smart enough to know there's no way he could turn from his sin. 

Bill Hendricks: 

I can't turn on my own. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, but you come to Christ in simple faith, knowing you're a sinner, and He will make you a new creation and He will begin to turn you from your sin from the inside out, and that's exactly what happened. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

So I think we got to get that order right. And a lot of gospels today, that order's wrong. I hear it all the time, like, "Turn from your sin and then come to Christ." I'm like, "If I could turn from my sin, I wouldn't need to come to Christ. I could save myself. I come to Christ and He turns me from my sin, and He's still turning me from my sin." It's an ongoing process until we're in His presence. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Absolutely. 

Greg Stier: 

So keeping that Gospel clear and then mobilizing our kids, our grandkids, our youth ministries. Let's build a Gospel advancing strategy where kids literally wake up and see themselves as missionaries. 

Bill Hendricks: 

How do you help youth pastors create that kind of a mobilized ministry? 

Greg Stier: 

Well, praying for one, and I don't say that lightly. So, we have these seven values. Intercessory prayer fuels it. The second value is relational evangelism drives it, so that means giving students Gospel urgency that they need to know why they should share the Gospel. And so you talk about Heaven, hell, identity, belonging, purpose, all that stuff. Give them why. Then, Gospel fluency, what is the Gospel? So at Dare 2 Share, we use Gospel acrostic, and we literally have students memorize. We've had millions of teens memorize this. God created us to be with him, Genesis 1-2. O is our sins separate us from God, Genesis 3. S is sins cannot be removed by good deeds, Genesis 4 through Malachi 4, the blood, sweat and tears, the sacrifices of sweat of trying to obey 613 Old Testament commands, the tears of contrition. So, sins cannot be removed by good deeds. P, paying the price for sin, Jesus died and rose again, Matthew, Mark and Luke, the substitutionary death work of Christ on the cross. 

Greg Stier: 

E, everyone who trusts in Him alone has eternal life, the Book of John. 98 times. Believe, believe, believe, believe, trust, put your faith in Him. And then L, life with Jesus starts now and lasts forever, Acts through Revelation. It's quantity of life and quality of life. And, we have students memorize that and then once they get it mastered, it's like chords on a guitar, then you can make it your own, make a beautiful song. So, giving them Gospel urgency, Gospel fluency and then some sort of Gospel strategy. We have a tool called Life in Six Words. It's an app that students can use and share with their friends, and share the Gospel using an app- 

Bill Hendricks: 

It's a tool. 

Greg Stier: 

It's a tool. But I tell people sometimes we go straight to tool, but you got to give them urgency and fluency first. And then, it doesn't matter almost what strategy you use. I don't go into a steak restaurant for the plate. I go for the steak. So, the tool is the plate, the Gospel is the steak so make sure they get the Gospel down. And that's why the Gospel acrostic is so helpful. I used it when I was a pastor. I had our church memorize it, so they knew the Gospel, and then I'd give it every week. So, they knew the Gospel and they knew how to share Christ. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Now, you speak widely, I take it, and train youth pastors all across the country. 

Greg Stier: 

Yep. Round the world now. The Lord's opening it up. I think there's a global thirst for evangelism and mobilizing young people. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah. And, you mentioned your own story with your mom. When you mentioned the 12-year-old girl, the Gospel is just as powerful in her hands as some adult. I assume that you've got stories back of kids who not only are reaching their friends but they go home, talk to mom and dad, grandma, granddad, and they're coming to faith. 

Greg Stier: 

So, last night I did an evangelism training in Frisco for about 100 students. And, I had them all practice, and I went through the Gospel ... These are student leaders and adult leaders. And I say, "By the way, if you haven't put your faith in Christ, do it now." 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, now's the time. 

Greg Stier: 

And let somebody know- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Can't share what you don't have. 

Greg Stier: 

Well, guess what? A mom volunteer that was there told her daughter, "I finally got it." 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

And her daughter had been sharing Christ with her and praying with her, and one of the adult leaders came up to me afterwards last night in tears saying, "This mom that this daughter had been praying for finally put her faith in Christ." Yeah, I gave the Gospel but this girl had been working on her mom for months. Months praying for her, sharing the Gospel with her, and she finally came in. We get stories like that all the time. Again, I just challenge every leader out there, if you miss the youth, you miss the movement. Every great spiritual awakening in the history of the United States has had young people. The first Great awakening, Whitfield and Wesley. Wesley, the master organizer. Whitfield, the cross-eyed preacher. A lot of people don't know he was cross-eyed. 

Bill Hendricks: 

I didn't know that. 

Greg Stier: 

He could preach to 30,000 people without voice amplification. I think a lot of the reason people came down forward is they said, "That dude's looking right at me. I'm going down now. I believe." Jonathan Edwards, the man who preached Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God also did the history of the first Great Awakening, said, "The revivals been chiefly amongst the young." It was a young people's movement. And, it was a student-led spiritual awakening that in the words of Metaxes prepared the United States to become a republic, because the colonies were a dark place. And I believe a student-led spiritual awakening can repair this republic. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Well, and you think of the recent movie about Jesus' revolution. It was a youth movement. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, youth movement. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Right? 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, a bunch of stoners. Teen and 20-something druggies that were radically converted. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, yeah. So, a kid comes to faith, talk to us about the whole discipleship piece. How do they grow in Christ? Because a lot of programs, we're saving souls, we got numbers and it's almost like that's the endgame is how many salvations did you have this week? And then, as we know, so many leave the faith later. They're not grounded. 

Greg Stier: 

Well Jesus, He didn't say go and make converts. He said, "Go and make disciples." So, the best way for that to happen we've seen is in the context of community, and so the way that we do this is when students come even to our event, we have the students come forward to their youth leaders, not to us. And then, the students that lead their friends to Christ are responsible to disciple their friends. So we provide free tools and resources for discipleship that youth leaders and students can use. 

Greg Stier: 

Here's what I think is important, too. The Western model of discipleship is flawed, I believe. Jesus connected evangelism and discipleship in Matthew 4:19-20. He's like, "Follow me and I'll turn you into fishers of men." So evangelism and discipleship are together, right? Following Christ entails fishing for the lost, sharing the Gospel. My buddy, Doug Holiday, says it this way, "Any discipleship strategy that does not begin with and end with evangelism is not biblical discipleship." Our philosophy of discipleship is two believers that have been saved for 20 years getting together once a week for a one-hour Bible study reminding themselves of stuff they should already know and should already be doing. Biblical discipleship is taking somebody, bringing them to Christ, helping them grow in Christ so that they can tell others about Christ as soon as possible. 

Greg Stier: 

And so, an illustration I use with youth leaders, if I take a sponge and I take milk, and I pour milk in that sponge, that's our philosophy. It's like, "Well, let's just get the content of theology, the milk of God's word ..." But what happens to that milk in that sponge is it spoils if you don't wring it out. So, I think we're missing the wringing out part. Yes, we pour in sound theology. We get them in the basics. We call it 5G Theology, God, God's son, God's spirit, God's word, Gospel. Boom. What does all that mean? How do I read God's word? How do I depend on the Holy Spirit? All the core, they need to get but then they squeeze that out to others. They're sharing Christ with others. They're discipling others. 

Greg Stier: 

So, we got to pour it in and we got to squeeze it out, and the Western church has half that equation. If that, because sometimes there's no discipleship strategy. There's no milk being poured. 

Bill Hendricks: 

That's exactly right. 

Greg Stier: 

So, we have to pour it in and we have to wring it out. We need to help them go deep and wide at the same time, not like, "Well, I'm going to take you really deep first and then the 401 class, we'll teach you evangelism." By the time 401 hits, they're institutionalized. 

Bill Hendricks: 

And they don't have any non-Christian friends left. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, that's right. So let's get them mobilized now. Welcome to the family, who you going to tell? And here, let me show you how to study your Bible. These kids are taking advanced Calculus and Honors statistics and all this other stuff, and we don't think they can learn how to exegete the scriptures. We don't think they can learn how to effectively evangelize and use apologetics. We have lowered the bar. We need to raise the bar, and kids will rise up to that expectation. We taught on the Trinity once, and I was talking about the Father, Son, Holy Spirit in that classic Trinitarian graph, and you got to make it personal so I talked about the love among the members of the Trinity, and then we had this plexiglass, and I'm training these hundreds of students in the Trinity. 

Greg Stier: 

And I said, "What does this mean for you?" And I went out in the audience and I said, "What's your name?" 

Greg Stier: 

"Claire." I said, "Are you a believer in Christ?" She goes, "Yes." I go, "Come up with me," and I painted her hand red and I put it right in the middle of that Trinitarian graph and I said, "Listen, you're not a member of, but you're invited in to the fellowship at the Trinity. You're never alone." This one kid in the audience falls to his knees and screams, "I'm not alone." Starts weeping because of the power of the theology, the practical nature of systematic theology, but the practical implications of that in a kid's life. 

Bill Hendricks: 

That's powerful. 

Greg Stier: 

And then, you think that kid wants to go out? I know that kid. He's going out, sharing the Gospel all the time- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Absolutely. 

Greg Stier: 

Telling everybody, "Hey, you don't have to be alone. There is a God that loves you that's going to invite you in." 

Greg Stier: 

So at Dare 2 Share, we really try to help that vein of discipleship, practical, theological, biblical and evangelistic. Let's go deep and let's go wide. Let's do it now. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Well, there's built-in accountability with sharing one's faith. If I'm trying to tell my non-Christian friends about Jesus, there's a built-in accountability. I can't fake it. I got to live this out. I got to be me. I don't want to fake spirituality, and I'm not perfect, and I admit that, but I can't have my little Christian life over here and with you, I'm going to do other stuff. 

Greg Stier: 

If you evangelize, you're putting yourself out there and you better be trying to live it because kids will- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Because they'll call it out if you're not. 

Greg Stier: 

Kids will call you on it, right? 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, for sure. 

Greg Stier: 

But that's one of the powers of sharing the Gospel. It's almost like the new coming out. I'm coming out, "Mom and Dad, I have some news for you." 

Bill Hendricks: 

I'm a Christian. 

Greg Stier: 

"I'm a Christian, I believe in Jesus." But, it strengthens their faith. Think about it. Romans 10 is weird if you look at it. It says, "If you believe in your heart, your justified. If you confess with your mouth, you're saved." That Jesus is Lord, right? Well, if you look in the NIV text notes, Jesus is Lord was the baptismal confession. So, when you got baptized, you stood in the water and said, "Jesus is Lord", that was right after you got saved. I mean, there was no hesitation. You believed in Christ in your heart, you're justified. Confess with your mouth, you're saved. Maybe that saved is talking about sanctification saved, because that confession with the mouth is a baptismal confession. Where was that done? Hidden in the church? No, that was in the mikva or that was in the Jordan or was in public with people around. It was your first evangelism experience. 

Greg Stier: 

You stood up in the water and said, "Jesus is Lord- 

Bill Hendricks: 

I'm going to follow Jesus. 

Greg Stier: 

"I'm identifying with these guys." That steeled and sealed their faith. That's a case for right away evangelism. The declaration that Jesus is Lord, that salvation is by faith in Him. This is what I believe. So, I think bringing that stuff together is so, so important. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Well, many of my friends who do evangelism in other cultures outside the United States, particularly in the global south, have said that is one of the main marks of new believers, that once they come to faith, the first thing they want to do is go tell. Like, "I got to tell my family" or, "I got to tell the people in my village." They never even think about it. It's just like, "Oh my gosh, there's somebody I need to tell about this." 

Greg Stier: 

And, what do we do? 

Bill Hendricks: 

It's like the woman at the well. 

Greg Stier: 

What do we do? We say, "Okay, before you get baptized, we need to put you through an eight-week course- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, we'll teach you how to do this. 

Greg Stier: 

"And then, we're going to fully institutionalize you before we allow you ..." And then, by then ... I think it's right away. Let's go tell somebody, and let's dive into the Word. Let's get sound theology. Again, I go back to Yankee and his impact on his my life, and it was theological and it was evangelistic at the same time. 

Bill Hendricks: 

All right, so let me ask you, you've been working in this for 30 some years so you know a whole lot about young people. What's the one most important thing you want to say to youth pastors? 

Greg Stier: 

I would say your teens are waiting for a cause to live for and die for, and it's the cause of Christ. There's a lot of good causes out there, stopping human trafficking, feeding the poor, giving water wells to the thirsty, but the overarching cause is to go and make disciples of all nations. And you can give the hungry bread and the bread of life, you can give the thirsty water and the living water, you can stop human trafficking and soul trafficking. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, they're not either/or, they're joined. 

Greg Stier: 

They're connected. And I would really encourage youth leaders, we have a free digital download of a book I wrote called Gospelize Your Youth Ministry. If you just look up Gospelize, Greg Stier, S-T-I-E-R ... I before E ... it'll pop up. You can download it for free. It's also on Audible. It's not free on Audible, but you can download a digital copy or purchase a hard copy. Read Gospelize and implement those seven values, even if you're not a youth leader. Pastors, I encourage you ... Listen, I pastored at a church- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Pastors and churches. 

Greg Stier: 

Planted a church, pastored a church for 10 years. When I left, it was a pretty good size church, about 1000 people, but 62% of the people came to Christ from people reaching people. So, this works in a church-wide setting, not just a youth ministry setting. So, I would really encourage you to download Gospelize and become a Gospel advancing leader. And, start with your student leaders. A lot of people are like, "Well, all the kids aren't going to get on board." No, not all the people got on board with Jesus's ministry. It was 120 in the upper room. He ministered to thousands. Go with the goers, pray for the others and keep chucking seeds. The Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute did a research project that said if you can get 10% of any group 100% committed to a vision or set of values- 

Bill Hendricks: 

You got something. 

Greg Stier: 

They'll influence the other 90%. But they got to be 100% committed. So I would say start with your student leaders and get them- 

Bill Hendricks: 

Red hot. 

Greg Stier: 

... all in. Yeah, and your adult leaders, get them all in. And they become the thermostat for the group. Start there. Start on your knees and then continue there. 

Bill Hendricks: 

All right, so what's the one most important thing you also want to say to parents? Because they factor into this sometimes. 

Greg Stier: 

Oh, man. So I'm a dad. I have an 18-year-old and a 22-year-old who's getting married in a week, a week and a half. Prayer and duct tape. I had it all figured out. I went through those courses on parenting that made it sound like bowling. Like you just follow the lines and you'll get a strike or a spare. Now, it's just pinball. Prayer and push buttons. 

Greg Stier: 

I would say, first of all, make sure your kids understand the Gospel. Make sure your authentic and you're seeking ... Honestly, if you screw up what you do, and I did so many times, confess it to them, ask for forgiveness. Try to set a consistent example and exemplify the grace ... 

Bill Hendricks: 

Grace. 

Greg Stier: 

I'll tell you a hard story. My son, Jeremy, who's the one going to get married, went through a time of rebellion. Secret rebellion. Now we knew he had a bad attitude and stuff. We didn't know that he was doing marijuana, vaping, getting drunk for, I don't know, six, seven months. 

Bill Hendricks: 

He was heading down a bad path. 

Greg Stier: 

And he had hid it from all of us, and my wife's a public school teacher and I work with teens- 

Bill Hendricks: 

So you figured we know the signs. 

Greg Stier: 

And, I was raised ... No, he masked it. One night, he came in, midnight, woke me up. My wife, as a teacher grading papers, fell asleep by the fire downstairs. He goes, "Dad, I got to confess something to you." And, he woke me up out of a dead sleep, I go, "What?" He goes, "I've been vaping. Last school year, I was vaping. I was getting drunk, I was doing weed, and I haven't done it for months, but I can't live with myself. What are my consequences?" 

Greg Stier: 

I'm like, "Well, you just woke me up." I said, "The first consequence is we got to wake your mom up." So we woke her up, and it was a long night, into the early morning. She's crying, tears were shed. He's like, "What are my consequences?" He wanted to know because he went to a Christian school and they had an honor code. And, I'm a rules guy. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, if those are the rules, right. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, yeah. I was a rules guy. It was last school year. My wife's like, "It was last school year. He confessed to us." I'm like, "Well, we need to figure this out." And, I always gave an immediate consequence. So I was one of those parents that counted up when their kids were disobedient and it worked. Somebody, a donor to our ministry, he's like, "That actually works?" I go, "Yes, it's the number of spankings he's going to get when he gets home." So it was a different kind of counting when he was little. 

Greg Stier: 

So I go, "Jeremy, we need two weeks to figure this out, to pray through it. I was not seeing this coming. We need time to figure this out." So Deb and I, we genuinely differed on what the ... but I said, "Well, let's pray through it." So we prayed and we finally came to a conclusion. Jeremy was sick waiting two weeks because he thinks I'm going to get him kicked out of school. So, we sit down. During that time, I had figured that all the food that I transferred money because he didn't have a job for food was actually about $500 worth over the course of several months was used for drugs and alcohol. 

Greg Stier: 

So, I had a whole list. You broke the law, you broke our hearts. You had to visit a drug dealer for this. You broke the school honor code. You broke the house rules. You broke God's heart. I mean, I had this whole thing. Stole money, everything. Here's the potential consequences. The page was full, and I gave him the list. I go, "Jeremy ..." He goes, "Yeah ..." 

Greg Stier: 

I go, "Read it and tell me if it's all accurate because I want to give you an accurate consequence." And, he was pale and shaking. He looked through it all and he goes, "Dad, this is all. I am guilty of everything." I go, "Okay, mom and I have decided what your consequence is. I took a sharpie and I wrote the word over all that, Tetelestai, and he looked at it and he goes, "I have no idea what that word means." I go, "It's what Jesus said on the cross when He said it is finished. Paid in full." And he goes, "Dad, I know Jesus forgives me. I'm not afraid of what He's going to do. What are my consequence?" 

Greg Stier: 

I go, "Jeremy, you're not getting what I'm putting down. Here's the consequence. There is no consequence. You confessed to us. You are completely 100% forgiven. I'm not going to kick you out, not going to make you pay the money back, not going to turn you into the school." Then I leaned over the table and said, "But Jeremy, unlike Jesus, this is a one-time deal. Next time, I'm going Old Testament." He broke, and that became a turning point in his life. 

Greg Stier: 

So I would just say make sure we're living out ... Jeremy today is serving the Lord. He's a marrying girl that's serving the Lord and he'll never forget- 

Bill Hendricks: 

He learned grace. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, and I asked him for permission to share this story with teenagers. I wasn't planning on it. He said, "Dad, I have one precondition. You can't hold anything back because a lot of kids are struggling with this because it's available so easily." 

Greg Stier: 

So I would say yes, have rules, yes, consequences, but man, let's live out the grace that we've received with our kids. Let's live out the Gospel. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Absolutely. That's great. All right, we got just a handful of minutes left. Let me do a rapid fire here, all right? 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, yeah. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Just one-liner responses. How would you complete this sentence? Young people, the Gospel and ... Okay? I got too many words here for the time we got left, but young people, the Gospel and social media? What comes to mind? 

Greg Stier: 

Use it as a tool to share the Gospel. 

Bill Hendricks: 

All right. Young people, the Gospel and peer pressure? 

Greg Stier: 

Flip the pressure by creating a crew that advances the Gospel. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Good. Young people, the Gospel and global warming? 

Greg Stier: 

It's all going to burn some day. That's what 2 Peter 3 says. It's true. Global warming's true. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah. All right, young people, the Gospel and shame? 

Greg Stier: 

Oh, Jesus, He removed our guilt and therefore our shame is nailed to the cross as well. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Just like you showed your son. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, yeah. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Young people, the Gospel and video games? 

Greg Stier: 

I've seen students use video games to communicate to other gamers and use it as a vast outreach opportunity. The devil's tools can be used against him. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Yeah, because it's a real community that get into these games. 

Greg Stier: 

Yeah, so let's stop looking at everything as the devil's tools and let's start redeeming it for the advancement of the Gospel. 

Bill Hendricks: 

You talk about the peer pressure, let's flip the script. Instead of it's these other kids that are somehow going to corrupt my kid, it's like, "No, no, no. I want my kid to be the influencer." 

Greg Stier: 

Exactly. 

Bill Hendricks: 

I want my kid and his friends to be the influencers. His Christian friends to be the influencers. 

Greg Stier: 

That's right, and so we call it a Cause Crew. You get a crew of teenagers on fire for Christ and they go as federally funded missionaries into the public school system or the Christian school system because there are a lot of unbelievers in Christian schools. 

Bill Hendricks: 

So that's back to that 10%, but they got to be 100% committed. 

Greg Stier: 

They do, and so we got to pray those strongholds down until they're all in. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Good. All right, young people, the Gospel and churches? 

Greg Stier: 

We need to mobilize them now, not later. We miss youth, we miss the movement, to and through the local church. 

Bill Hendricks: 

So you really do believe that may be the most potent force a church really can have to penetrate its community? 

Greg Stier: 

Teens can spread the gospel. They come to Christ faster, they can spread the gospel farther. One 15 year old on TikTok that posts a Gospel viral video can reach more than Billy Graham did in 15 stadium events. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Wow. 

Greg Stier: 

So let's use that. 

Bill Hendricks: 

All right. One more. Young people, the Gospel and Jesus? 

Greg Stier: 

A relationship, not a religion. 

Bill Hendricks: 

Love it. Yeah, get to know Him. Let Him know you. 

Greg Stier: 

Love Him. Let Him be the revolutionary that changes everything in your life. 

Bill Hendricks: 

That's powerful. Greg Stier, thank you very much for being with us today on The Table podcast. 

Bill Hendricks: 

And I want to thank you for listening in. You can subscribe to The Table podcast at any outlet that is your favorite. We look forward to seeing you the next time. For The Table podcast, I'm Bill Hendricks. Have a good day.